Everything is F*cked: Reflections on Hope and Travel with Mark Manson

Posted: 05/14/2019 | May 14th, 2019

You meet a lot of interesting and smart people when you run an online business and travel the world. One of the people I’ve met is best-selling author Mark Manson. We had orbited each other for many years and finally met when he moved to New York City.

We’ve been “real life” friends ever since.

His first book, The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck, became a runaway hit, selling over 8 million copies. (He wrote a post about how travel made him the person is today, which laid the foundation for that book.)

Now, Mark has a new book out today called, Everything is F*cked: A Book About Hope. I received a copy to read in advance and it’s a really incredible book about philosophy and how to live a life of meaning and challenge in our modern times. It gave me some good food for thought about issues or perspectives I hadn’t thought about before.

Today, Mark and I chat about his new book!

Nomadic Matt: You have a new book out, Everything is F*cked: A Book About Hope. Let’s talk about it. What would you say the core of this book is about?
Mark Manson: At its heart, this book is a look at how to develop and maintain a sense of hope for ourselves and the world — and how these hopes affect us. We generally see hope as an unequivocally “good” thing, but I call that idea into question in this book.

Would it be a considered follow up to The Subtle Art?
I’ve been calling it an “expansion” of the ideas from Subtle Art. I think it’s a deeper analysis and more complex application of the same concepts—values, pain/suffering, and our definitions of success. It’s kind of like the calculus to Subtle Art’s algebra or the chess to its checkers.

What inspired you to write this book?
Well, just looking around at what is going on in the world. We’re living in a weird time in that materially, the world, as a whole, is the best it’s ever been (less poverty, violence, more wealth, people living longer, etc.), yet mentally and emotionally, people are struggling more than ever with finding hope and meaning in their lives.

And what’s interesting is that it’s the people from the wealthiest and most stable parts of the world who are experiencing these philosophical struggles the most.

On top of that, I’ve noticed in my own life, that as an older millennial, all the promises of my youth have turned out pretty ugly. From the internet to my country and to my assumptions about relationships, friendships, community, it feels like there’s a lot to be justifiably upset about — yet things are objectively better.

I’ve had my own struggles with finding meaning and hope in my own life, despite the fact that, on paper, everything is awesome. So, in that way, this book is kind of my own way to sort through these issues.

Since this is a travel website, let’s talk about your book and travel. How can travel make us less f*cked? Or can it?
I think anything that increases human empathy is hugely important and beneficial at the moment. I also think anything that can cause you to confront your own value systems and question them is incredibly useful.

Travel does both of those things very well.

It’s a bit ironic that by connecting the world more than ever before, we’ve also come to objectify cultures more than ever before. Everything is about “the ‘Gram” so to speak. I think a highly conscious and culturally engaged form of travel is still paramount.

Like anything, travel can become an escape from one’s problems rather than a pursuit of some higher understanding. So, it’s important to always make sure you’re on the right side of that equation.

One aspect of the book I found really interesting was the formula for life and how it relates to being a better person (especially in relation to travel). Can you describe this idea a little bit?
The Formula of Humanity comes from the philosopher Emmanuel Kant and essentially says that the driving force behind all of our decisions and actions should always be people. That more than emotions, more than culture, more than group loyalties, our first principle should always be to treat people (both ourselves and others) with dignity and respect.

And I think travel forces one to practice this.

It’s easy to sit on one side of the world and criticize people on the other. But when you go there and discover that 99% of the people are good, decent people and actually value the same things you do, it makes empathy more possible.

What can people learn from your book that they can apply to their lives?
I think there are five points that people can really apply to their own life:

• Why self-discipline requires understanding your own emotions.
• Why trauma and loss cause emotional dysfunction and how we can overcome that dysfunction.
• How every belief system is ultimately a little bit religious and we need to be careful about that.
• How to be more resilient.
• How to be freer in a world of constant distraction and diversion.

You talk a lot about how our feelings brain being in control and that we live in a feelings economy, where emotions run rampant. Can travel temper that in any way? Can travel show us how not to be keyboard warriors?
Unfortunately, there’s no way to NOT be irrational and emotional, as much as we’d sometimes like to. The key is to not resist or attempt to change our emotions but simply work with them, rather than against them. Things like anger, anxiety or even despair can be highly useful if channeled properly. The key is to develop the skill-set to channel them.

I think like a lot of things, travel amplifies who you already are. If you’re selfish and intolerant, then your travel experiences will reflect that. If you’re magnanimous or curious, then they will reflect that. A way that travel can be useful is that it is a tool to force you to work on aspects of yourself that you wouldn’t otherwise be able to work on.

Do you struggle with being alone or caring too much about what others think? Travel alone.

Used to being pampered and upset over every little thing? Go take a train through the Indian countryside. That’ll straighten you out real quick!

You mention a lot of philosophers in your book (which I enjoyed because I got a lot of book suggestions). What are some good books to read around this topic?
It’s exciting because I feel like philosophy is becoming cool in our culture. It makes sense because as all of our basic needs are taken care of, these questions of existential meaning, purpose, and what to hope are more at the forefront of our minds, and those are all philosophical questions.

If you’re a complete newbie to philosophy and want to get a basic understanding of the Western canon, I recommend a book called Sophie’s World by Jostein Gaarder. It’s a fun fiction book that acts as kind of a primer to the most important western thinkers.

If you’re into eastern philosophy, DT Suzuki’s books are a nice introduction to Zen Buddhism. The Tao Te Ching is highly readable and thought-provoking. And Alan Watts’ books are indispensable.

And if you want to see how applications of ancient philosophy are incredibly useful in today’s world. Check out Jonathan Haidt’s The Happiness Hypothesis or Ryan Holiday’s The Obstacle is the Way.

You talk about how we need pain to grow and, I think, part of experiencing pain is getting out of your comfort zone. What can travel teach us about pain and growth?
Painful travel is the best kind. It’s like going to the gym for your mind and your understanding of humanity. My first trips to India and Africa were two of my most difficult and uncomfortable trips and today I think back to them fondly because they were incredibly formative to my understanding of the world.

India was shocking because of the quantity of beauty and human suffering squished into such confined spaces. You could see one of the most beautiful things in your life and one of the most horrific things in your life, all within a few blocks of each other.

Africa was eye-opening because when you really get out in the bush, you get a real sense of how little humans need to be happy. It’s cliché to say that money and possessions don’t make you happy, but when you see with your own eyes people who are feeling just fine owning nothing more than a goat and a robe, it’s quite profound.

China was probably the most alienating place I’ve ever been. I’ve never felt so foreign in my life. It’s the only place I’ve been where I’ve really gotten the sense that I did not matter, at all. And just having to sit and live with that feeling for the two weeks I was there was quite impactful.

I think it’s easy to forget how resilient the human spirit is, how many places it can flourish, and how easily it can be happy. The first time you see a child shit on the side of the street, it suddenly grants a lot of perspective the next time you complain about bad Wi-Fi.

Ultimately, I argue that a growing issue in the world today is that we aren’t challenged enough and that we don’t have meaningful struggles, so we have to invent meaningless ones to take their place and maintain a sense of hope.

Travel is a way to constantly challenge yourself. Whether it’s traveling to a poor country or forcing yourself to study a language or physically testing yourself through hikes and biking across continents. It’s indispensable.

Finally, in your own words, why should people buy this book?
Because it’s fucking awesome! And, as with my last book, I utilize stories and examples from all over the world and from a number of different cultures to make my point.

There’s a soldier from Poland and a monk from Vietnam and historical fiction about Isaac Newton and a vignette about Friedrich Nietzsche and his over-sized mustache. What’s not to love?

(Matt says: And it really is great like he says! Pick up a copy, especially if you enjoyed his last one!)

Mark Manson is a blogger, entrepreneur, and the best-selling author of The Subtle Art of Not Giving a F*ck, which has sold over 8 million copies worldwide. He specializes in writing personal development advice that doesn’t suck. His website MarkManson.net is read by over 2 million people each month.

His new book, Everything is F*cked: A Book About Hope is now available. He lives in New York City.
 
 

Book Your Trip: Logistical Tips and Tricks

Book Your Flight
Find a cheap flight by using Skyscanner or Momondo. They are my two favorite search engines because they search websites and airlines around the globe so you always know no stone is left unturned.

Book Your Accommodation
You can book your hostel with Hostelworld as they have the largest inventory. If you want to stay somewhere other than a hostel, use Booking.com as they consistently return the cheapest rates for guesthouses and cheap hotels. I use them all the time.

Don’t Forget Travel Insurance
Travel insurance will protect you against illness, injury, theft, and cancellations. It’s comprehensive protection in case anything goes wrong. I never go on a trip without it as I’ve had to use it many times in the past. I’ve been using World Nomads for ten years. My favorite companies that offer the best service and value are:

• World Nomads (for everyone below 70)
• Insure My Trip (for those over 70)

Looking for the best companies to save money with?
Check out my resource page for the best companies to use when you travel! I list all the ones I use to save money when I travel – and that will save you time and money too!

Reflections on Traveling Through Morocco

Have you ever loved a destination but couldn’t figure out why, or a way to express your feelings? That’s my dilemma with Morocco.

In August, I went with Intrepid Travel and crossed off a country that has long been on my bucket list. I rode a camel, drank all the mint tea I could find, got lost in medinas, and ate more couscous than I thought was humanly possible.

I loved the tour. Our guide Rashid was friendly, took us out to smoke shisha, introduced us to the locals, and was generally very helpful. I made friends with my tour mates and got along with my roommate. And Morocco itself – wow! I loved walking down the street and being barraged by the smell of 1000 diffrent spices, getting lost in the maze-like medinas with their endless nooks and crannies, the chaos of millions of people shuffling about with vendors vying for your attention, and the crimson red of the Sahara with its endless rolling dunes — they were all I wanted them to be! Sure, there were many overwhelming moments when I felt like a fish out of water and things didn’t go my way but I relish those moments!

Travel is about feeling uncomfortable. It’s one of the reasons I enjoyed Ukraine so much, where I was completely out of my element. The country challenged me and I loved it. I fawn over it every chance I get!

Morocco was everything I wanted it to be. It lived up to all my expectations, but for some reason, my experience has been hard to verbalize. Why can’t I express how I feel about Morocco? It’s been bothering me for months.

I’ve racked my brain thinking about it, pondered it on trains, and stared at a blinking cursor while trying to write about it.

Then, suddenly a few weeks ago, the reason hit me.

One constant in my travels — and I’m sure many of you might feel the same — is that of a touchstone, one defining point where the trip all comes together and acts as a prism for everything the journey represented. On my trip to Japan, it was befriending a local who wanted to learn English. In Costa Rica, it was getting lost in a jungle. In Ukraine, it was drinking vodka with locals who knew less English than I knew Russian (and I only know “cheers” and “hello”). On my first visit to Thailand, it was meeting those five people who changed my life. In Ios, it was being taken to a local community festival by my hostel owner.

My trips revolve around one memory that crystalizes the trip and puts everything into focus. Each of the moments ties together all my other memories of a place: the food, the smells, the sights, the people. It’s the first thing that comes to mind when I think of the place and acts as the door to all other memories.

Despite the wonderful times I had and the amazing itinerary Intrepid put together, I’ve realized the reason I’m so ambivalent about Morocco is because I lack that touchstone. There’s no “whoa” moment I can point to where I felt ultra-connected to the country, where everything came together.

But writing this article has made me realize that I have thousands of little moments — staring at the a million stars in the backness of the desert, wandering the empty ruins of Volubilis, discovering new foods with some amazing Australians on my tour, befriending the fish sellers and gorging on fresh seafood in Essaouira, getting lost in medinas, haggling over a chess set and laughing with the seller, and drinking about 1,000 pots of mint tea (OK, slight exaggeration, it was more likely 999).

So maybe you don’t need that one special moment. Maybe I’ve relied on that touchstone as a crutch for too long.

Paul Theroux once said travel is only glamorous in retrospect. I’m not sure I agree with that but what I am sure about is that, in retrospect, I’m only now truly appreciating the time I spent in Morocco and how unique it was.

Sometimes your senses get so battered it takes time for the dust to settle, the thoughts to process, and the wonderful moments to shine through.

*****Editor’s Note: I went to Morocco with Intrepid Travel on their Best of Morocco tour. It was part of my ongoing partnership with

: I went to Morocco with Intrepid Travel on their Best of Morocco tour. It was part of my ongoing partnership with Intrepid Travel . They covered the cost of the tour, flight, and meals.

Reflections on 5 Months of Travel: Time to Hang Up the Backpack

Last year, after my friend Scott passed away, I decided it was time to stop trying to plan a big multi-month trip and actually do it. His death made me realize that our time is short and you shouldn’t put off something in hopes that “the perfect time will come.” There’s no perfect time to just go — but there I was, waiting for one. I had fallen for the thing that I so often argue people not to do.

For the last couple of years, most of my travel has been in short, very frenetic bursts – a far cry from the slow travel I undertook when I started on the road. Between conferences, life obligations, and trying to having a home base, I kept cutting my trips shorter than I wanted.

Sure, I was on the road, but it wasn’t those endless, carefree travel days of yore. Trying to juggle so many things in my life made it hard to just pick up and take off.

Scott’s death made me rethink my position, and so last November, I packed my bag and hit the road again. I wanted adventure, freedom, and to remember what it was like to have no time limit on your travels — to just go with the flow all over again.

Five months later, I came home.

Change is often gradual and insidious. You often don’t realize how much a trip has affected you until months later. You don’t realize that time spent hiking through the Amazon changed you until it is too late.

But I knew right away how this trip changed me: it taught me that I don’t want to travel for so long for the foreseeable future. I’m over it.

I love travel, but after ten years on the road, I discovered that spending five months away isn’t enjoyable for me. It’s too long to be away when I’m in a period of my life where I want to slow down and create a life in just one place.

I loved the first two months — they were fun, exciting, and everything I thought they would be — but, as time went on, this trip confirmed what I began to believe after my book tour: two months of constant travel is my new limit. After that, I get burnt out.

I’m not sure when it happened, but I like being home. I’ve been going back and forth with the idea of having a home for years, but this last trip helped me realize I really do like staying in one place, going to the gym, cooking, going to bed at 10, reading books, and all those other homebody-like routines.

And my friends and I are going to open more hostels this year, which will consume a lot of my time and require me to be stateside! (NYC and Portland, I’m coming for you!)

I’m shocked at myself for changing. Who would have thought there would be a domesticated Matt? Not I!

I have many domestic trips lined up but my passport won’t be used until July when I go to Sweden. I’ll fly again to warmer climates in the winter but I’m excited not to have any other travel plans on my calendar.

I need a break. I’m slightly sick of being on the road. The anxiety and panic attacks my last trip caused while trying to juggle everything made me realize I am no superman. Working while traveling has taught me I never want to do that again. Those Argentinians in San Rafael shook me to the core when they said, “Why are you working so much? Did you come to travel or to work?”

They were right. I came to travel. I don’t want to work and travel anymore and the only way to do that is shift how I travel.

The most enjoyable parts of my last trip were when I was simply a traveler. When the computer was shut, when I was offline and could fully immerse myself in my destination, I was my happiest. I felt like I was immersed in a destination and focused.

I’m going back to that kind of travel.

While I might have outgrown long-term travel, I certainly did not outgrow backpacking. Being with those guys in San Rafael, staying in hostels in Australia, and hanging out with travelers in Southeast Asia made me realize I want to do more of that — and just that.

My computer is not coming with me anymore.

They say trips take you, you don’t take them, and I’ve never walked away from a trip without some new insight. This trip showed me that if I’m going to enjoy my travels, I need to change how I approach them — by planning shorter trips and leaving my work at home.

When something becomes a chore, you lose your passion for it, and the last thing I want to do is lose my love of travel… even for a second.

And, though I’m taking a break and enjoying this rest stop, I still see the road and I know, sooner or later, I will answer its siren song, sling on my backpack, and be on the move again.